This is the whole meeting in its 80 minutes plus glory! (Part 2 has the HLA)
If you watch it all, you deserve a medal!
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Marty Golden Town Hall Meeting: The Movie21 comments to Marty Golden Town Hall Meeting: The MovieLeave a Reply |
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So we need a plan, a vision, and years of preperation for a high school? Yet the HLA is allegedly no more than a porposal yet they are ready to implement that school right away?
The roster for the HLA is already booked yet noone from this community, that I know, received an application. Let us see the names of all the children on that registration. I’m sure every kid on that list already speaks hebrew quite well.
What I don’t understand is why the proposed high school would be contingent upon the HLA. They are two different issues actually. At least it seemed to me that the DOE’s proposal was you can get one if you allow the other. Smells like a deal is being offered. The DOE did not want to hear our plea for a high school before. Now they want to talk in order to establish the HLA. Too little too late.
If it will take years to get a high school organized then so be it. Any school should be well planed, organized and most importantly well executed. What I don’t understand is if the high school is anything other than a deal sweetener why do we need to accept the HLA to get the high school? They should be two completely different issues entirely, apples and matzos.
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There were NO answers being offered to most of the questions here, other than that the HLA applicants have a “right” to an educational choice and the kids who already go to the school do not. Since when is the DOE interested in accommodating the choices of students and their parents? Only since Bloomberg’s close personal friend is sponsoring the charter.
In one breath, White is telling us there’s not enough room for a high school and magically, the school grows after the HLA has been there for two years. You’re right,Mjolnir, these are two separate issues and when I told Arthur Goldstein, counsel for HLA Charter School, that Marine Park parents were not interested in a “You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” situation, he was incensed that we saw it that way. Something that the parents have been clamoring after for three years suddenly becomes possible under just these circumstances and we’re not supposed to see it this way?
As far as it taking years for our “vision,” I see it there in the same timeframe, Sept. 2010, but with three years worth of HLA students (9 classes + administrative offices!), where do they intend to put it?!? Our school is already dealing with the Board of Regents- our kids are taking Regents classes for Regents credit now. He also said that the current administration would develop the high school, not that it would be run as one school with one administration. There is a lot of sleight of hand, smoke and mirrors going on here. Their objective is to get the charter school in, shut us up with their promises and then give us something else entirely from what we want-or nothing at all.
PLEASE COME TO TUESDAY’S MEETING AND LET YOUR PRESENCE BE FELT.
At the end of this debate, you may well find me volunteering for the very first campaign I’ve ever been involved with- BILL THOMPSON FOR MAYOR.
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I am leaving work early tomorrow to make the rally on time. Anyone who wishes to join me email me through out the day @ MJOLNIR5@Aol.com if you would prefer not to go up alone.
The time for talk and half measures are over people. The time for griping on the laptop while on our couches are done. Be there tomorrow or save your comments for another blog.
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WHAT I DON’T UNDERSTAND IS WHY THESE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE TAKING OVER EVERYTHING AND THEY CITY LETS THEM, THIS IS A WAY TO PUSH OUR KIDS OUT THEY HAVE MILLION HEBREW SCHOOLS AROUND, WHY DO THEY NEED TO GET THERE HANDS ON A PUBLIC SCHOOL? THESE PEOPLE THINK WHO THEY ARE.
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I agree. The answers that Mr. White gave us were evasive at best when they weren’t contradicting. This country is a democracy, or at least it used to be. That being said the D.o.E.’s job is to cater to the majority taxpayers not special interest groups, particularly when those special interest groups are religiously motivated. The first hebrew charter school opened in Florida and it is staffed with Rabbis. The last time I checked Rabbi was a religious title.
Tax payers for years have had to pay for their children to go to private schools when they were not satisfied with the public education system. Why now does the D.o.E. chose to foot the bill for these people?
And as far as the local schools having a lower enrollment numbers in recent years, why are parents in Gerritsen Beach being told that there is no room for their children in 277? I do not know if this is happening in Marine Park grammar schools. I have no problem with children outside the school district being bused in for a better chance at an education but rightfully eligable children should not be shipped out to accomidate them.
Lastly if this HLA will not accept the D.o.E.’s union faculty and staff where is Randy Weingarten? Will she be there with us on Tuesday? She should be fighting every charter school in the city.
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Wake up folks, it doesn’t take a town hall meeting to make your voices heard. The Mayor, the Captains of his fiefdom, DOE, and politicians (aka as your representatives), are fully aware of the Separation of Church and State. Whatever happened to the “release for religious education program”, where students attending public schools were allowed time each week to attend religious instructions at Parochial schools? Why can’t that program include a time for Hebrew, Arabic or other language instructions. How many Protestants, Catholics, Roman, Greek Orthodox, or otherwise, or Muslims, are going to study Hebrew? To unravel the education facility of an entire community to a school for one religious group, using taxpayer dollars is unconstitutional. It’s time to call on the ACLU to stand-up for your rights. I would defend the rights of any and all peoples of the Jewish faith, and I detest some of the comments that are anti-Semitic, but setting a precedent of this kind is not in the best interest of any group of our citizenry.
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Hey Folks, in case you haven’t figured it out, the fact is that Marine Park and the JHS are in a lot of trouble. This Hebrew charter school finding a home here is another sign that the call has been put out to a brand new demographic- “move here!†Not saying it hatefully, just stating a fact. And here’s another fact, it seems like battle lines are being drawn.
So what’s our community’s response – do we stay or go?
Don’t fall for the hype coming from our politicians like Weiner, Fidler, Maisel, Weinstein, Kruger, etc. All of their posturing and declarations against this school – do you actually think for one second that they didn’t know what has been going on for months now? DUH. Great planning. Better politicizing. Blame Bloomberg, go after Marty Golden, because it’s all pot shots at this point because the Democrats won’t be able to stop this school, but they will get a bunch of free shots in.
Win-Win, right fellas? Right out of the TJ Club playbook.
But I guess we deserve what we get if we keep voting for these mutts. Isn’t it time that we gave someone else our vote. They think they’re unbeatable because we let them think that way. It’s time to WAKE UP!
Think about it – what help have they been for Marine Park? Marine Park is DONE. the JHS is DONE. Now is the time to raise a little hell. It’s time for the silent majority to GET LOUD!
It’s time to go to this meeting on the 26th and say what you truly mean and to hell with political correctness? After all, everyone’s saying that it’s all a done deal, right? Might as well finally lay all cards on the table.
And this meeting can’t be the end of it. We need to STAND UP! THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR! Vote against the Mayor, vote against our local “leaders†who have nothing better to do than play these political games for THEIR OWN BENEFIT.
It’s time to say that the community does not want this ethnic charter school here. Go find somewhere else. We have lived and worked to make Marine Park and all of our neighborhoods great. Marine Park is a premium neighborhood with great local schools. And what do you get for all of that hard work? We’re told that our votes and tax dollars don’t count – or at least don’t count as much as some other people – and that our neighborhood is UP FOR SALE. Tell all of our politicians… YES ALL OF THEM… that we are not going to go away and will keep fighting until the community is heard and this school is out.
Politicians are playing games with our children, our homes. We cannot let our values be compromised for the sake of these sleazy politicians and their supporters. Show them that we know what they’re doing and it stinks. They knew exactly what was happening to this school and they LET IT HAPPEN – but we’re supposed to believe their outrage after the fact. BULL. I know better. YOU know better.
Get mad, people. Now is the time.
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Write to Mayor Bloomberg and tell him how you are going to make sure as many people as you can talk to ,or email will not vote for him in November and it is because of his unfair practices…favors to close friends. , not that I would vote for him anyway, but I already emailed his office and told him if this happens at Marine Pk Jr H.S I will be voting against him in the next election. Maybe won’t do much but at least I am making sure I spread the word outside of the neighborhood, about this totally unfair situation going on in our schools.
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I’m really disturbed by the antisemitic tone so many posts on this issue take. I’m no more happy about this idiotic charter school than anyone else, but if you’re going to blame anyone blame Michael Steinhardt and the DOE.
The charter school people do NOT represent or speak for all Jews. This is nothing but the personal ambition of one rich man who just happens to be Jewish, and the spineless wusses of the DOE who bend over and let him have his way. All of my Jewish friends who know anything about this issue are on our side: they think it’s just as stupid and unnecessary as we do.
There are many reasons to oppose this school, but the fear that it will be a magnet for Jews moving into the neighborhood is not one of them. Certainly no Orthodox Jew would want to send their kids to a secular school like this. Steinhardt is a very outspoken atheist!
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It’s not about being anti-semitic. It’s stating plain facts. Why is it that when different groups disagree someone’s gotta go all PC? Screw being PC, this is about our children and our way of life and how people are trying to change it forever!
Is it Anti-Semitic to say that over 1500 homes have been purchased by people of Jewish faith this past year? Is it Anti-Semitic to say that there’s a new Jewish community group in Marine Park with plans to break our community’s character by overbuilding and up-zoning? And again, this is just in the past year! Don’t infer any bad intent from stating facts. They need to be said.
So let’s all stop tiptoeing around this and confront all facts involved. This isn’t a popularity contest, it’s about outside forces changing OUR neighborhood and dividing us instead of coming to be a part of our community.
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It’s being antisemitic if one thinks that Jews don’t have a right to buy houses and live wherever they choose, just as it would be racist if one thinks that blacks don’t have the right to buy houses and live wherever they want. As long as we have a capitalist market economy, then anyone can buy property wherever they want.
Go back in time and you will find that the character of the neighborhoods we live in has changed many times in the past. Where are the Native Americans who used to live here? Or the Dutch that supplanted them?
You say the Jews are trying to change “our way of life” forever. Hmm. No Jew has changed MY way of life (well, to be fair, there was the one 2000 years ago :) That presumes that “our way of life” has not changed and would not change if it weren’t for their interference. I think I’d be safe in assuming that all of us who live here, our ancestors moved in from someplace else. My father’s family came from Poland in the early 1900s. My mother’s family came from Italy in the late 19th century. My wife’s family came from Ireland even earlier. I know for a FACT that my ancestors and hers were condemned for coming into established communities and changing their way of life forever.
Focus on the fact that charter schools in themselves are bad news. Focus on the fact that putting this school in 278 will probably disadvantage the kids already there. Focus on the fact that charters are for failing districts and ours is not. If this were some kind of art or science-themed charter school, I’d oppose it. If it were a Chinese or Spanish charter school I’d oppose. It’s a Hebrew language charter school, and I oppose it.
But if one starts complaining about [insert ethnic group here] moving into to a neighborhood, then one just ends up looking like a racist and delegitmates one’s argument. It gives the enemy the ability to dismiss our concerns with “You just hate Jews!”
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Show me where I said that anyone doesn’t have the right to buy houses. I said that a certain group was in a large number. That’s all. Stop inferring my argument and actually read. No one’s anti-any person. To ignore facts because an issue is touchy is cowardly and a disservice to your cause.
Let’s talk about recent history – every neighborhood has had an influx of a different group at one time or another. Yet, those “changes” added to a community’s character because the groups melded together. In my opinion, given what I’ve seen, that’s not the case here, and haven’t been the case in other communities. In this case, this influx of new residents has resulted in divisiveness – the new civic group in Marine Park is a perfect example of that. Why not work with the existing Civic, start a dialogue and work together. Instead, they set up an adversarial relationship from the start.
While I’d love to hold hands and sing “Kum By Yah” with you, I think you’re being a little naive.
I haven’t seen one person say “I hate Jews” – they’re saying “I love Marine Park”. There’s a difference. The needs of one community are being favored over the needs of another. It’s all of our responsibility to make sure that it doesn’t continue.
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Chernobog, you’re right that it is races for not wanting to allow people of any race or religion from moving into our neighborhood. But the people we’re talking about here are not just any race or religion but a particular race/religion that has no interest in assimilating into any neighborhood.
I’ve worked in the Borough Park section of Brooklyn for over 30 years and I can recount on many occasions how the dominant residents “persuade†the non-religious population in that neighborhood to conform to the rules/beliefs that the Hasidic residents find important with their faith.
I have talked to a number of non-Hasidic business owners that have operated on 13th Ave for decades who were approached by local “residents†and told that if they did not close on Saturday their businesses would be boycotted by the local residents.
A number of years ago the city wanted to install bike lanes on a number of streets through Borough Park and the neighborhood leaders applied “pressure†to the political leaders to scrap that proposal because they were concerned about the type of clothes the bikers would wear while riding through their neighborhood.
While I certainly understand and accept that if their beliefs do not include working on Saturdays or wearing inappropriate outfits while cycling, I do take exception the way they try to deny other people the same freedoms that encouraged them to come to this country in the first place.
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Let’s be clear though that this charter school is a totally separate issue from this perceived Jewish invasion. None of the type of Jews you’re talking about would WANT to send their children to this charter school.
The problem, trainman, is that a legitimate as your concerns are for you, our system makes THEIR concerns just as a legitimate for them.
Add to that the fact that no one is obligated to “assmilate” into a community nor is anyone obligated to frequent a business. Our country is based on a capitalist market economy, and the only factor that matters is money. If you have the money, you can buy a house anywhere you want and no one can stop you or demand you “assimilate” into the neighborhood. If you have the money, and you don’t like something a business does — even something as absurd as what days they close — then you can do so, and no one can stop you. That’s the American way.
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Chernobog, thanks for your reply and I’d like to commend you on not reducing this exchange to name calling and innuendos.
You say that the Hasidic community will not be enjoying the benefits of learning “Hebrew culture†in a public financed school. I have no direct knowledge to contradict that statement but you must admit, for all intended purposes, this is an exclusive charter school that will be enjoyed by a select segment of our community.
Do you think this is in the best interest of our public schools?
I also agree with you that anyone has to right not to assimilate into a community but again I would like to ask you is this “right†in the best interest of our country and its people?
Is this what democracy is all about?
Is this what our leaders envisioned while drawing up the Declaration of Independence?
I don’t think so.
Because some people acquired a great amount of wealth and use that wealth to influence our elected officials to circumvent laws that were in place to protect the many which now only benefit a few, can’t be construed as individual freedoms.
The rights we have as individuals in this country, end when they infringe on the rights of others.
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You’re very welcome. So much of this issue is blown out of proportion because of people being too ready to get angry.
Let me just explain some points. I have expressed my opposition to this school elsewhere on this site (basically, I do not like charters at all and I think this school is unnecessary and silly). However, Hasidic Jews are religious fundamentalists. That is why they segregate themselves in likeminded communities and why they send their children to yeshivas. The HLA is a secular public dual-language school — and Michael Steinhardt is a very outspoken atheist. He doesn’t like the Orthodox and they don’t like him. Kids who go to HLA won’t get any religious instruction, and for the Hasidic Jews they wouldn’t see the point. For them, nothing is more important than studying Torah. The HLA would not have been approved by the State if there was going to be Torah study.
Now, about the notion of being “exclusive.” The HLA people did do outreach. They sent out applications (we got one) and I see no reason not to believe them about their efforts. They’d be pretty easy to check for anyone with the will to do so and the consequences of being proven liars would be catastrophic.
However, who would want to send their children to a dual-language school for Hebrew other than Jews? There’s a Greek language charter school, but it makes more sense for non-Greek kids to know Greek than for non-Jewish kids to know Hebrew — especially modern Hebrew. Add that to Steinhardt’s stated goal for a secular Jewish school and I’m really concerned about this. It really seems to me as a way to use public money to shore up one culture’s identity. It’s not “exclusive” in that non-Jews wouldn’t be allowed. It’s “exclusive” because who other than Jews would WANT to be allowed?
Unfortunately, charter schools are legal and all of this has been done legally.
Now a word about deomocracy: we don’t have a democracy and the founders of this country did not intend a democracy. The Founding Fathers didn’t think the common people were capable of making decisions for ourselves, but they did allow us to choose (more or less) who would make the decisions for us.
But the issue here is the commodification of our society. Everything — homes, food, work — is a commodity to be bought and sold, and as long as that is true, those who have will be able to prey upon those who don’t. Now, let’s not fall into that lie that Jews have all the money. No one with any amount of money can MAKE a person leave his home. But if someone wants to buy and the owner might not be committed to staying, a transaction could be attractive.
And in a market-based society, once would bought it, its yours and you don’t owe anything to anyone.
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Those we chose to make the decisions for us have to be reelected every four years. They are accountable to the electorate. I disagree that we do not then have a democracy. No one is inferring that everything be taken to a referendom. That is why we have elected positions. With that being said our chosen decision makers, baring the mayor and his appointed chancellor, have all decided against The HLA. I think I have made my feeling regarding the HLA clear on other posts so I won’t take up the room here.
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I think we agree on more than our initial comments suggested. It’s also refreshing to be able to contradict one another in an intelligent way.
I know we’re getting off course here with our points of view on democracies and what it entails. You stated that “we don’t have a democracy in this country”. If that’s true, someone ought to informed our political leaders in Washington because they’re attempting to introduce our democracy in Iraq.
I don’t want to seem flippant on this object but I really need to take exception on what values we should find important in our society. Unfortunately you are right when you say many people use wealth as a barometer when valuing people. I personally don’t think anyone, because of their financial situation, is less or more important than I. No one is entitled to more freedom because of their wealth just as no one should be subject to less freedom because of their misfortune especially with the monopolization of our industry and then outsourcing our industrial jobs while reducing our workforce to a service oriented society. This abandonment of American industry has cause an ever-increasing gap between the haves and have-nots. Because of the density of population in the Northeast, many people still can make enough money to enjoy a productive life. If you travel, as I have, west of Philadelphia, save for a some large cities, people are stagnating because of lack of opportunities.
Are these people less deserving of the freedoms we should all enjoy?
The influence of these multinational corporations have with our political leaders in Washington is very similar to the way our special interest groups in this city go about influencing our local politicians. Because of the very nature of our democracy and free elections it requires politicians to continuously raise money to pay for their political aspirations. It became evident these last few months when our mayor, with the help of the city Council who also must abide by a two-term limit rule, reverse that rule essentially nullifying the will of the people who voted twice for term limits. If we reelect these people in the next election, then we Definitely Do deserve the government we have today and situation like we have here in Marine Park will continue and increase in frequency.
Peace
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@Chernobog,
lots of interesting discussion here but let me point out- the Hellenic charter school that Ms. Berman loves to refer to teaches “classical” Greek and Latin, not modern conversational Greek. Hebrew was pretty much a dead language until it was resurrected for the State of Israel in 1948- A Jewish state as it was frequently touted. It’s “classical” stage was largely Biblical. While it is clear that Steinhardt has little interest in religion himself, Jewish culture is too deeply entwined with Israeli culture to be able to avoid all mention of religion as public schools are so careful to do with the Christian faith. How can you explain why you shouldn’t ask for a cheeseburger in Tel Aviv without explaining Jewish dietary law?
I don’t believe in charter schools in general and this one less than most. I believe that every public school should be worthy of the children placed in their care. I believe that every child should be able to go to a quality school in his/her own neighborhood because I think that when a family has that connection of community and education, great strides can be made. And I think that if Michael Steinhardt wants to foster a sense of Jewish identity, he should open a private school and not expect the taxpayers to foot the bill.
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All concerns are legitimate, however in the end we cannot appease everyone all of the time. That is why we are obligated to do what is best for the concerns of the majority. I agree with what you have written that the majority of the district will not be interested in the HLA. This is evident by the large public out cry. That is not to say that the HLA would not benefit any community in this city, just not this one.
You are correct that people are free to live where they chose and are free to participate, or not, in the community. If the people of any community are upset at any large migration of people of different race, creed, or religion into their neighborhood then their frushtration should not directed towards those buying homes within the community, it should be directed towards those selling their homes. However, if the small migration of people want to make changes to that community, say their local public middle school, albiet temporary, then I think they do owe something to the community, the truth for starters.
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Just a proposal. Not a done deal.
Huh.
Liar.
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